I’m an atheist. It’s not something I wear on my sleeve because I’m not a militant atheist. I don’t walk around my town wearing a sandwich board declaring everything that’s wrong or objectionable about scripture. That’s the Internet’s job.
In real life though, I’ve never been made to feel dirty or discriminated against because of my (lack of) religion. No old ladies throwing rotting vegetables at me in the street or public shunning of any kind. Well, until recently. Here’s what happened:
Enter the local scout group
My oldest son is painfully shy. After years of trying to get him to participate in football clubs and after school activities, we finally found something he loved and enjoyed: the local cub scouts group. I’ve never seen him so happy or fulfilled, making new friends and getting involved in games.
But there were a couple of problems. The long-established leaders of the pack were planning to leave, and the numbers of children attending were quite small. It was very likely that the pack might disband if nothing was done to bring stability to it. There was one new pack leader who’d started in the same month as my boys, but really no-one else was stepping forward. And with child protection regulations, there was no way a ratio of 1 adult to 8 children was going to be allowed.
So – and totally painting myself as a modern day hero here – I decided that there’s no point in complaining about people not being community minded if I wasn’t going to step forward myself. And so I did. I put in an application to be an assistant, which involved a standard police check and some references to make sure that I wasn’t a shady dude. Fair enough. (Passed with flying colours, by the way!)
An interview…
A few weeks ago, I was surprised to receive a call from a man inviting me to an interview for the position of pack leader. This was curious, because I’d assumed I was applying to help on a more informal basis. You know, show up every 2-3 weeks and offer a hand with whatever was planned. So an interview seemed a tiny bit over the top. But hey, I decided to go with the flow.
And so I went along to the interview with a bit of the reading material the Scouts people had sent me. It was while I was sitting in a coffee shop before the interview that I read the literature they’d sent me. Uh-oh. To be a pack leader, you must have recognize an obligation to God. It doesn’t have to be the Christian God, mind you. Any God will do. Just not “no god”.
Before the interview, a lumbering, white-haired bear of a man approached me and introduced himself as one of the leaders who’d be interviewing me. Apparently there was a problem with my application – I’d ‘forgotten’ to fill in the religious denomination section. Silly me. I explained that I tend to leave that blank because I’m an atheist and…
It was as if all the air had been sucked out of the room. The formerly genial gentleman who’d been talking to me was reduced to uncomfortable stammering. Damn, I’ve never experienced anything like this before. He awkwardly pointed out that the Scouts aren’t a Christian organisation – presumably for equality reasons more than anything else – but that an atheist cannot make a pledge to God. I agreed. It’s something I would never do, not even to cover my ass and ‘fake it’.
He rushed off to consult with his colleagues about this, but the vibe was frosty. And then I was called in to meet with the three leaders.
What I explained to them…
- No, I’m not a Christian. I have no problem with anyone’s religious beliefs, but I won’t fake a belief to fit in. I think that stands testament to my credibility and self-respect.
- I admire the Scouting organisation. I understand that they have a code of conduct that they try to instil in the children, and I admire and support that. I just don’t believe that religion is the only way to treat kids morality and right from wrong.
- My decision to help out with my local pack was an attempt to be community-minded and volunteer to give something back to an organisation that was having a profoundly positive effect on my children.
- I explained that my religious position is long held and will never change. It was the product of a long and traumatic period of questioning in my life that led to the conclusion that there is no God.
I did not try to be a facetious smart-arse and list my religion or say that Simon Cowell is my God. Though I was sorely tempted. You open your doors to all religions, as long as the person can say that they pray to a deity.
It’s profoundly insulting to be told that a door is closed to you because of your beliefs. What, I can’t be around Cub Scouts because of my lack of religious belief? I suppose I’m not fit to be a parent at all by that logic.
Here’s the real kicker:
After having what was a genial but frank discussion with these three leaders, the head honcho guy laid out the problem for me: there’s no way you can ever be a pack leader. (Er, I didn’t want to be in the first place, I just wanted to offer support, not get married to you!) But I possibly, maybe, could be a pack assistant. You don’t need to make the vows, but you can wear the uniform. Cool. I think.
But the leader of the leaders had to squeeze in one final insult along the way:
We’re going to have to check this out with the area leadership. But it’s not as if people are knocking down our door to sign up as leaders, so it’s probably okay and we should be able to offer you a position as pack leader.
Er, back it up there Baloo! So what you’re saying is that if you had a queue of Christians, sorry Deists wanting to help, I wouldn’t be good enough for your Scouts group? How unutterably rude! It goes without saying that you clearly aren’t inundated with nice, religious mums and dads lining up to help out. Instead, you’re sitting in a circle around an atheist dad who’s keen to help your organisation. Grrr.
That made me angry. “Ordinarily, you wouldn’t be good enough. But since no-one else cares enough to step up, you’ll probably get a position by default.” Not cool, Scouting dudes.
Guess what?
In the last week, I was offered a pack assistant position. Incredible. But totally expected. I presume the legal position was a bit sketchy – you can’t really discriminate against people based on their religious beliefs. But obviously the pack was in dire need of extra hands and there was really only one applicant.
Now, I could be bitter and offended about all of this, but I’ll probably take our local scouts troupe up on their ‘kind’ offer. Ultimately, it’s good for the kids, and not just my own kids. And I still like the idea of contributing to the community somehow. And I still respect what scouting’s about in providing a firm foundation for our kids.
But a question for Christians and Atheists reading this: how would you have reacted? Am I doing the right thing by staying involved, or should I have been more vocal about my objections?
I was a cub scout, went through the entire program, weeblo, arrow of light, then to the Boy Scouts where I eventually became an eagle scout. Granted this was all back in the eighties and nineties. Now, I didn’t really know what atheist meant back then. I do remember when I started there was an older kid about to get his Eagle Scout but there was some sort of issue with the religous endorsement you must get because as my Dad told me he was “agnostic” and didn’t have a pastor or priest or anyone like to give him the endorsement. Well we never really went to church anymore but we did when I was a kid. I never thought much about it, I was more into science and I remember even as a child asking questions like what about the dinosaurs and if adams and eve had kids would they have to marry each other to have more kids, and I suspect that in general I was just too inquisitive and perhaps that was the reason we didn’t go. I still imagined myself a christian however but I figured all the dumb stories were just a buch of stuff that was made up like Santa Claus and the Easter bunny. When it came time to get my eagle scout I knew I would need some sort religious endorsement as I didn’t want to fool with the hassles that I remembered from earlier. I didn’t really think anything of it. I loved the scouts and felt that the program instilled in me a respect for nature as well as people, and that it was more my religion than any church was. Still I was just 15, the thought of dissent wasn’t really planted in my mind. I went to church with a friend. The second time when they were playing the music for an unfathomable amount of time trying to save people I figured I would go up and see what it was all about. So I stepped up and said I wanted to be “saved”, I had to sit and tell the pastor a few things like I believe Jesus died for my sins and stuff like that. Which I think maybe Jesus really did believe he was dieing for my sins, but probably stuff like that didn’t matter. Then next week I asked the pastor for a letter for my eagle scout application. And that was the last time I went. When I retell it like this, it kind of sounds like I was gaming the system but it didn’t feel that way at the time. It was until college that I realized not believing was even an option, even though we never really participated in religion for most of my life.
Looking back I still love my time in the Boy Scouts but I disapprove of some of their policies. My leaders made sure the religious aspect didn’t matter for me or for the agnostic boy. The program gives so much more than religion ever could and I really feel it prepared me for life. I have a 3 year old and 1 year old now, and I will support them if they want to join but like you, I’m not sure I have the innocence to play it dumb if I am outright asked about my views now, although I suspect being an Eagle Scout assumptions would be made and I would never be questioned.
Good luck to you and your family
Good for you and recognizing that there are more important things in life than a little squabbling over religion. As someone who developed their atheism IN the scouts, I have fond memories of the organization. It’s unfortunate to see the brass being so hesitant about bringing you on, but hey, they’re NOT a religious institution and THEY have to know that.
Also I loved it when my dad was involved with scout activities (derby cars, hell yeah!); it gave us something fun to do together.
As an Eagle Scout and an Atheist I say good job with wanting to help out your kids and be a pack leader/assistant! I don’t know where that guy came up with the Boy Scouts being a “Christian Organization” because the only thing that came close to religion in any of our meetings, camping trips, etc was that we met at a church. We never prayed, there were never any bible quotes being said, or anything else to do with religion. I say just do a good job, and teach the kids use full things that belong in the Scouts.
I think you did the right thing in staying on and not stirring up the waters any more than you had to. If you got past the weird interview part, I doubt it will become much of an issue later on, or even be mentioned again. Maybe you’ll just have to stand idle for a minute of prayer every now and again, but we’ve all been there.
I think in the end what people in your community will remember is that you helped, that the kids loved you, and that you were a good person overall. The higher-ups might even be a little more accepting once they see that the person they were hesitant about ended up being an alright dude.
I think you handled it really well. Good for you for standing by your beliefs, and helping out your son and the other boys despite the bias of the Cub Scout organization.
Firstly well done in controlling your EQ and keeping a measured response!!
Unfortunately the scouts like many organisations have outdated underlying regulations/rules……a throwback to bygone days!!
However you have raised an interesting and relevant social topic………religious bias in our everyday life. It is madness to think that to join something like the scouts that you have to have a faith, which is effectively believing in an invisible, omnipotent, omniscient deity that watches over us and will judge us on our death to see if we should burn or not!! Just bonkers in the 21st Century!!!
I suspect the Scout leaders were ill-equipped to deal with this situation, which speaks volumes in its own rights, the whole, ” well it’s the rules, I better seek advice from higher up”…..this is the root of humankinds problems, constantly abrogating responsibility to higher authorities. What the interviewer should have done is made the decision there and then, using their own intellect and self –empowerment, the “it’s not me it’s the rules you see’ approach is pathetic and by failing to use their own initiative they were effectively condoning the rules and giving up their individualism to think for themselves………..what happened to inclusion for all principle…..very sad!!
Once again, the impliedness will be, it’s those nasty militant atheists constantly causing trouble mentality……………the UK is not a Christian country anymore, recent data supports this, so secularism is the really only workable solution in the public sphere!!
I was in cubs & scouts……did the whole…..dib, dib, dib thing……..great fun……….but I remember trying not to laugh when saying the pledges and the Easter parades………..there are no religious children just their parents. I suspect like many children the whole god thing is just a bit circumspect and just follow what the leaders do……………which in effect is disingenuous by all concerned?
You say it’s where your kid really blossomed? I’d swallow a lot of insults if it would help my son. I suspect from what you’ve written you would, too.
I’m a scouter and a non-theist. Its not required that one attend a church, and scouting is non-sectarian, so it doesn’t define god or gods. I personally keep my beliefs to myself, and when I am supposed to pledge to do my duty to god, I define god for myself as non-supernatural, “brotherhood of man, tolerance, justice, etc”.
They literally leave the door open. They accept Buddhists, Hindus, Moslems, Christians, Jews. Buddhists don’t believe in god either. Scouting just has a hangup with the word atheist. Don’t use that word and your fine.
As one who has grown up in the church , I do not think it should matter what kind of theist you are as long as it doesnt require you to harm others. The premise of the Scouts (in any country) is predominantly centered on community service. It is also an outlet to teach children USEFUL skills and characteristics which build the self-esteem and confidence they will need to succeed as adults. I firmly believe that you do not have to believe in God or any deity in order to be a kind, compassionate, decent, intelligent, productive, law-abiding citizen. I think the Scouts should be more concerned about those with criminal records and shady pasts rather than your religious/non-religious beliefs. And, yes, Faith is really my name