Comments for Family Of Five http://familyoffive.co.uk A blog about parenting and marriage Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:46:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 Comment on The Atheist and the Cub Scouts by Faith http://familyoffive.co.uk/2012/04/04/the-atheist-and-the-cub-scouts/#comment-606 Faith Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:46:53 +0000 http://familyoffive.interwebworld.co.uk/?p=498#comment-606 As one who has grown up in the church , I do not think it should matter what kind of theist you are as long as it doesnt require you to harm others. The premise of the Scouts (in any country) is predominantly centered on community service. It is also an outlet to teach children USEFUL skills and characteristics which build the self-esteem and confidence they will need to succeed as adults. I firmly believe that you do not have to believe in God or any deity in order to be a kind, compassionate, decent, intelligent, productive, law-abiding citizen. I think the Scouts should be more concerned about those with criminal records and shady pasts rather than your religious/non-religious beliefs. And, yes, Faith is really my name :) As one who has grown up in the church , I do not think it should matter what kind of theist you are as long as it doesnt require you to harm others. The premise of the Scouts (in any country) is predominantly centered on community service. It is also an outlet to teach children USEFUL skills and characteristics which build the self-esteem and confidence they will need to succeed as adults. I firmly believe that you do not have to believe in God or any deity in order to be a kind, compassionate, decent, intelligent, productive, law-abiding citizen. I think the Scouts should be more concerned about those with criminal records and shady pasts rather than your religious/non-religious beliefs. And, yes, Faith is really my name :)

]]> Comment on The Atheist and the Cub Scouts by Scouter http://familyoffive.co.uk/2012/04/04/the-atheist-and-the-cub-scouts/#comment-588 Scouter Sun, 08 Apr 2012 02:04:45 +0000 http://familyoffive.interwebworld.co.uk/?p=498#comment-588 I'm a scouter and a non-theist. Its not required that one attend a church, and scouting is non-sectarian, so it doesn't define god or gods. I personally keep my beliefs to myself, and when I am supposed to pledge to do my duty to god, I define god for myself as non-supernatural, "brotherhood of man, tolerance, justice, etc". They literally leave the door open. They accept Buddhists, Hindus, Moslems, Christians, Jews. Buddhists don't believe in god either. Scouting just has a hangup with the word atheist. Don't use that word and your fine. I’m a scouter and a non-theist. Its not required that one attend a church, and scouting is non-sectarian, so it doesn’t define god or gods. I personally keep my beliefs to myself, and when I am supposed to pledge to do my duty to god, I define god for myself as non-supernatural, “brotherhood of man, tolerance, justice, etc”.

They literally leave the door open. They accept Buddhists, Hindus, Moslems, Christians, Jews. Buddhists don’t believe in god either. Scouting just has a hangup with the word atheist. Don’t use that word and your fine.

]]> Comment on The Atheist and the Cub Scouts by James http://familyoffive.co.uk/2012/04/04/the-atheist-and-the-cub-scouts/#comment-587 James Sat, 07 Apr 2012 17:51:22 +0000 http://familyoffive.interwebworld.co.uk/?p=498#comment-587 You say it's where your kid really blossomed? I'd swallow a lot of insults if it would help my son. I suspect from what you've written you would, too. You say it’s where your kid really blossomed? I’d swallow a lot of insults if it would help my son. I suspect from what you’ve written you would, too.

]]> Comment on The Atheist and the Cub Scouts by The Doubter http://familyoffive.co.uk/2012/04/04/the-atheist-and-the-cub-scouts/#comment-586 The Doubter Thu, 05 Apr 2012 23:41:27 +0000 http://familyoffive.interwebworld.co.uk/?p=498#comment-586 Firstly well done in controlling your EQ and keeping a measured response!! :) Unfortunately the scouts like many organisations have outdated underlying regulations/rules……a throwback to bygone days!! However you have raised an interesting and relevant social topic………religious bias in our everyday life. It is madness to think that to join something like the scouts that you have to have a faith, which is effectively believing in an invisible, omnipotent, omniscient deity that watches over us and will judge us on our death to see if we should burn or not!! Just bonkers in the 21st Century!!! I suspect the Scout leaders were ill-equipped to deal with this situation, which speaks volumes in its own rights, the whole, " well it’s the rules, I better seek advice from higher up"…..this is the root of humankinds problems, constantly abrogating responsibility to higher authorities. What the interviewer should have done is made the decision there and then, using their own intellect and self –empowerment, the “it’s not me it’s the rules you see’ approach is pathetic and by failing to use their own initiative they were effectively condoning the rules and giving up their individualism to think for themselves………..what happened to inclusion for all principle…..very sad!! Once again, the impliedness will be, it’s those nasty militant atheists constantly causing trouble mentality……………the UK is not a Christian country anymore, recent data supports this, so secularism is the really only workable solution in the public sphere!! I was in cubs & scouts......did the whole.....dib, dib, dib thing........great fun..........but I remember trying not to laugh when saying the pledges and the Easter parades...........there are no religious children just their parents. I suspect like many children the whole god thing is just a bit circumspect and just follow what the leaders do……………which in effect is disingenuous by all concerned? Firstly well done in controlling your EQ and keeping a measured response!! :)
Unfortunately the scouts like many organisations have outdated underlying regulations/rules……a throwback to bygone days!!
However you have raised an interesting and relevant social topic………religious bias in our everyday life. It is madness to think that to join something like the scouts that you have to have a faith, which is effectively believing in an invisible, omnipotent, omniscient deity that watches over us and will judge us on our death to see if we should burn or not!! Just bonkers in the 21st Century!!!
I suspect the Scout leaders were ill-equipped to deal with this situation, which speaks volumes in its own rights, the whole, ” well it’s the rules, I better seek advice from higher up”…..this is the root of humankinds problems, constantly abrogating responsibility to higher authorities. What the interviewer should have done is made the decision there and then, using their own intellect and self –empowerment, the “it’s not me it’s the rules you see’ approach is pathetic and by failing to use their own initiative they were effectively condoning the rules and giving up their individualism to think for themselves………..what happened to inclusion for all principle…..very sad!!
Once again, the impliedness will be, it’s those nasty militant atheists constantly causing trouble mentality……………the UK is not a Christian country anymore, recent data supports this, so secularism is the really only workable solution in the public sphere!!
I was in cubs & scouts……did the whole…..dib, dib, dib thing……..great fun……….but I remember trying not to laugh when saying the pledges and the Easter parades………..there are no religious children just their parents. I suspect like many children the whole god thing is just a bit circumspect and just follow what the leaders do……………which in effect is disingenuous by all concerned?

]]> Comment on The Atheist and the Cub Scouts by Drew http://familyoffive.co.uk/2012/04/04/the-atheist-and-the-cub-scouts/#comment-583 Drew Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:43:31 +0000 http://familyoffive.interwebworld.co.uk/?p=498#comment-583 I think you handled it really well. Good for you for standing by your beliefs, and helping out your son and the other boys despite the bias of the Cub Scout organization. I think you handled it really well. Good for you for standing by your beliefs, and helping out your son and the other boys despite the bias of the Cub Scout organization.

]]> Comment on The Atheist and the Cub Scouts by Stephen http://familyoffive.co.uk/2012/04/04/the-atheist-and-the-cub-scouts/#comment-582 Stephen Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:36:29 +0000 http://familyoffive.interwebworld.co.uk/?p=498#comment-582 I think you did the right thing in staying on and not stirring up the waters any more than you had to. If you got past the weird interview part, I doubt it will become much of an issue later on, or even be mentioned again. Maybe you'll just have to stand idle for a minute of prayer every now and again, but we've all been there. I think in the end what people in your community will remember is that you helped, that the kids loved you, and that you were a good person overall. The higher-ups might even be a little more accepting once they see that the person they were hesitant about ended up being an alright dude. I think you did the right thing in staying on and not stirring up the waters any more than you had to. If you got past the weird interview part, I doubt it will become much of an issue later on, or even be mentioned again. Maybe you’ll just have to stand idle for a minute of prayer every now and again, but we’ve all been there.

I think in the end what people in your community will remember is that you helped, that the kids loved you, and that you were a good person overall. The higher-ups might even be a little more accepting once they see that the person they were hesitant about ended up being an alright dude.

]]> Comment on The Atheist and the Cub Scouts by Ron http://familyoffive.co.uk/2012/04/04/the-atheist-and-the-cub-scouts/#comment-581 Ron Wed, 04 Apr 2012 15:09:18 +0000 http://familyoffive.interwebworld.co.uk/?p=498#comment-581 As an Eagle Scout and an Atheist I say good job with wanting to help out your kids and be a pack leader/assistant! I don't know where that guy came up with the Boy Scouts being a "Christian Organization" because the only thing that came close to religion in any of our meetings, camping trips, etc was that we met at a church. We never prayed, there were never any bible quotes being said, or anything else to do with religion. I say just do a good job, and teach the kids use full things that belong in the Scouts. As an Eagle Scout and an Atheist I say good job with wanting to help out your kids and be a pack leader/assistant! I don’t know where that guy came up with the Boy Scouts being a “Christian Organization” because the only thing that came close to religion in any of our meetings, camping trips, etc was that we met at a church. We never prayed, there were never any bible quotes being said, or anything else to do with religion. I say just do a good job, and teach the kids use full things that belong in the Scouts.

]]> Comment on The Atheist and the Cub Scouts by Fence http://familyoffive.co.uk/2012/04/04/the-atheist-and-the-cub-scouts/#comment-580 Fence Wed, 04 Apr 2012 15:03:05 +0000 http://familyoffive.interwebworld.co.uk/?p=498#comment-580 Good for you and recognizing that there are more important things in life than a little squabbling over religion. As someone who developed their atheism IN the scouts, I have fond memories of the organization. It's unfortunate to see the brass being so hesitant about bringing you on, but hey, they're NOT a religious institution and THEY have to know that. Also I loved it when my dad was involved with scout activities (derby cars, hell yeah!); it gave us something fun to do together. Good for you and recognizing that there are more important things in life than a little squabbling over religion. As someone who developed their atheism IN the scouts, I have fond memories of the organization. It’s unfortunate to see the brass being so hesitant about bringing you on, but hey, they’re NOT a religious institution and THEY have to know that.

Also I loved it when my dad was involved with scout activities (derby cars, hell yeah!); it gave us something fun to do together.

]]> Comment on The Atheist and the Cub Scouts by Jason http://familyoffive.co.uk/2012/04/04/the-atheist-and-the-cub-scouts/#comment-579 Jason Wed, 04 Apr 2012 14:49:01 +0000 http://familyoffive.interwebworld.co.uk/?p=498#comment-579 I was a cub scout, went through the entire program, weeblo, arrow of light, then to the Boy Scouts where I eventually became an eagle scout. Granted this was all back in the eighties and nineties. Now, I didn't really know what atheist meant back then. I do remember when I started there was an older kid about to get his Eagle Scout but there was some sort of issue with the religous endorsement you must get because as my Dad told me he was "agnostic" and didn't have a pastor or priest or anyone like to give him the endorsement. Well we never really went to church anymore but we did when I was a kid. I never thought much about it, I was more into science and I remember even as a child asking questions like what about the dinosaurs and if adams and eve had kids would they have to marry each other to have more kids, and I suspect that in general I was just too inquisitive and perhaps that was the reason we didn't go. I still imagined myself a christian however but I figured all the dumb stories were just a buch of stuff that was made up like Santa Claus and the Easter bunny. When it came time to get my eagle scout I knew I would need some sort religious endorsement as I didn't want to fool with the hassles that I remembered from earlier. I didn't really think anything of it. I loved the scouts and felt that the program instilled in me a respect for nature as well as people, and that it was more my religion than any church was. Still I was just 15, the thought of dissent wasn't really planted in my mind. I went to church with a friend. The second time when they were playing the music for an unfathomable amount of time trying to save people I figured I would go up and see what it was all about. So I stepped up and said I wanted to be "saved", I had to sit and tell the pastor a few things like I believe Jesus died for my sins and stuff like that. Which I think maybe Jesus really did believe he was dieing for my sins, but probably stuff like that didn't matter. Then next week I asked the pastor for a letter for my eagle scout application. And that was the last time I went. When I retell it like this, it kind of sounds like I was gaming the system but it didn't feel that way at the time. It was until college that I realized not believing was even an option, even though we never really participated in religion for most of my life. Looking back I still love my time in the Boy Scouts but I disapprove of some of their policies. My leaders made sure the religious aspect didn't matter for me or for the agnostic boy. The program gives so much more than religion ever could and I really feel it prepared me for life. I have a 3 year old and 1 year old now, and I will support them if they want to join but like you, I'm not sure I have the innocence to play it dumb if I am outright asked about my views now, although I suspect being an Eagle Scout assumptions would be made and I would never be questioned. Good luck to you and your family I was a cub scout, went through the entire program, weeblo, arrow of light, then to the Boy Scouts where I eventually became an eagle scout. Granted this was all back in the eighties and nineties. Now, I didn’t really know what atheist meant back then. I do remember when I started there was an older kid about to get his Eagle Scout but there was some sort of issue with the religous endorsement you must get because as my Dad told me he was “agnostic” and didn’t have a pastor or priest or anyone like to give him the endorsement. Well we never really went to church anymore but we did when I was a kid. I never thought much about it, I was more into science and I remember even as a child asking questions like what about the dinosaurs and if adams and eve had kids would they have to marry each other to have more kids, and I suspect that in general I was just too inquisitive and perhaps that was the reason we didn’t go. I still imagined myself a christian however but I figured all the dumb stories were just a buch of stuff that was made up like Santa Claus and the Easter bunny. When it came time to get my eagle scout I knew I would need some sort religious endorsement as I didn’t want to fool with the hassles that I remembered from earlier. I didn’t really think anything of it. I loved the scouts and felt that the program instilled in me a respect for nature as well as people, and that it was more my religion than any church was. Still I was just 15, the thought of dissent wasn’t really planted in my mind. I went to church with a friend. The second time when they were playing the music for an unfathomable amount of time trying to save people I figured I would go up and see what it was all about. So I stepped up and said I wanted to be “saved”, I had to sit and tell the pastor a few things like I believe Jesus died for my sins and stuff like that. Which I think maybe Jesus really did believe he was dieing for my sins, but probably stuff like that didn’t matter. Then next week I asked the pastor for a letter for my eagle scout application. And that was the last time I went. When I retell it like this, it kind of sounds like I was gaming the system but it didn’t feel that way at the time. It was until college that I realized not believing was even an option, even though we never really participated in religion for most of my life.

Looking back I still love my time in the Boy Scouts but I disapprove of some of their policies. My leaders made sure the religious aspect didn’t matter for me or for the agnostic boy. The program gives so much more than religion ever could and I really feel it prepared me for life. I have a 3 year old and 1 year old now, and I will support them if they want to join but like you, I’m not sure I have the innocence to play it dumb if I am outright asked about my views now, although I suspect being an Eagle Scout assumptions would be made and I would never be questioned.

Good luck to you and your family

]]> Comment on Things I love about my kids, part #852: How they totally ‘get’ me. by Linnea Larsen http://familyoffive.co.uk/2012/03/29/things-i-love-about-my-kids-part-852-how-they-totally-get-me/#comment-578 Linnea Larsen Tue, 03 Apr 2012 16:56:25 +0000 http://familyoffive.interwebworld.co.uk/?p=486#comment-578 Like Canadian Dad said, that is a loaded question. I can't brag enough about my children. Despite being abandoned by their dad, they all have great senses of humor and they get along famously. Well, the two boys have their quarrels but they are not afraid to hug each other as well. This was a nice post. I'm glad you can appreciate your children. Like Canadian Dad said, that is a loaded question. I can’t brag enough about my children. Despite being abandoned by their dad, they all have great senses of humor and they get along famously. Well, the two boys have their quarrels but they are not afraid to hug each other as well. This was a nice post. I’m glad you can appreciate your children.

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